Oracle Fusion Apps Delays

I hear at Oracle OpenWorld next month it will be acknowledged that Fusion apps will be delayed through 2009 at the earliest. Not surprised - it was always a moonshot.

But disappointed to hear John Wookey, who headed development, may be a casualty as a result. Development will likely be split - with new Fusion going under Thomas Kurian, and legacy (including PeopleSoft other acquired products) under another exec with more of a support background.

The latter is not a surprise either. No major enhancements were planned for the acquired products. Putting them under a support umbrella just makes it official.

As I wrote in The New Vaporware, legacy (acquired) customers should again ask - if all we will get is tweaks to existing product, and Fusion apps will take a while to be rolled out,  why exactly are we paying Oracle full maintenance?

When they go to San Francisco for the conference, a meeting with third party maintenance firms like Rimini, NetCustomer and others may be a good investment.

Update: Dennis Howlett reports an internal email confirms John Wookey's departure

I have posted a follow up blog here

Josh Greenbaum speculates Oracle will say "what delay?". True, since there is no clear specification of what exactly Fusion Apps will  look like.

Comments

[PeopleSoft]

No major enhancements were planned for the acquired products? This is not true, Why you are commenting on something that you don't have all the facts to comment on? This is not true. Oracle is investing heavily (maybe in the same proportion as in Fusion) in all the acquired products: Siebel, PeopleSoft, Retek, etc.

[vinnie mirchandani]

Dear PeopleSoft, it may be semantics but new features in 15 year modules like asset management and core HR do not count as enhancements in my book. Show me integration with predictive analytics, and features using newer mobile, sensory, social networking and other technologies and I will gladly say you are making significant new investments in the acquired products.

Happy to review additional facts you can share about the investments you are making in the acquired products. Thanks!

[anonynous]

This does not seem true at all.

Current Oracle revenues have gotten a boost due to acquired businesses - Why would Oracle want to put this into support and maintenance mode?

Thomas Kurien has been the architect of the acquisitions, it makes sense to put him in charge. Who knows Wookey might be getting a promotion.

I would like to see your claim come true...

[vinnie mirchandani]

anon, I am not claiming, just reporting what I have heard. I myself like John and if you search my blog you will see complimentary words about him. But as BusinessWeek said he had the hardest job in the Valley integrating so many different built and acquired applications

[anon2]

This is almost impossible to believe. Wookey has been making a lot of positive changes. kurien works for another guy who runs the database also. its unlikely kurien gets to run all the middle-tier and applications.

[Jeff Nolan]

Looks like the Oracle trolls are active as part of their newfound blogger outreach efforts.

[joe]

I think you have no idea what you're talking about when you comment on Oracle's investments in the various product lines. Are you running a product development organization in Oracle? Let me ask you - are you a customer for one of the products? Are there features that you need? Oracle customers have complex relationships with Oracle and I for one think they value what Oracle provides them. Plus who needs the mobile or sensory stuff in asset management or payroll.

[vinnie mirchandani]

Jeff, 3 out of 4 of the comments above came from Oracle IP addresses. In our world of transparency, not sure why they do not feel comfortable engaging in an open dialog with real names. What I write on this blog every one of Oracle's sales people and consultants hears in the field from customers - so not sure why the debate cannot be more transparent.

[vinnie mirchandani]

Joe, I was not just addressing those modules...in Siebel, Retek, PSFT and JDE there is plenty of CRM, SCM functionality which should be leveraging mobile and sensory technologies.

And even asset management - check out my other blog on innovation - New Florence, New Renaissance to see what companies like Union Pacific and BP are doing around their rolling or sensitive assets. Ditto with payroll - with all the rocket scientists Oracle claims to have would like to see what you are doing with parallelization, mobile time entry etc etc.

In my book, Oracle should be leading the market with such innovations, not just tweaking 10-15 year old functionality.

To your point about Oracle customers having complex relationships with Oracle...are you suggesting SAP, MS, other vendors are not similarly sophisticated?

About value Oracle provides - do the math. Oracle barely spends 10 to 12% of all revenues on R&D. Much of that goes to support - so a tiny portion of what customers pay you in annual maintenance goes towards new functionality. Pretty low payback, and why many customers are looking at 3rd party maintenance at 25 to 50% of what Oracle charges.

Finally, you asked about my credentials - at PwC (where incidentally I reviewed PS Asset Management module release 1 way when it came out in 1992), then Gartner, now as a consultant to CIOs I have helped many, many Oracle and other customers evaluate functionality, implementation issues, pricing. FYI- . I have also helped a number of software CTOs evaluate outsource versus build captive decisions when it comes to staffing - so think I understand sw industry economics and trends pretty well.

I welcome the opportunity to debate some more, but respectfully ask that you identify yourself - do not hide behind an adopted name.

[Anyone]

Vinnie, with due respects, what all you tell here is not true, you say that all what you wrote here is "what oracle filed people hear". This is not true, come and talk to the developers, if you want the right information, look at the amount of work that is done to build and enhance the products that are under applications unlimited. Dont just say something. Whensomeone is undera company why should we identify ourself. Did u do the samething when u were doing all the great things that was mentioned

[vinnie mirchandani]

Anyone, no I cannot relate to anonymous posts. I have always worked for companies which allowed me to publish opinions under my name. You have read Gartner reports. Analyst names are prominent. Even at PwC I wrote articles and was allowed to publish under my name. So, I cannot to relate to why Oracle will not let you identify yourself. Sure they can establish policies to say the opinions are yours, not officially those of Oracle.

Secondly, I know you and your colleagues work hard at Oracle. That is not the point. What Oracle charges for your efforts is way over priced. Not your fault, but your management has gotten used to high margins and Wall Street continues to oe xpect those. I represented CIOs and buyers, not Wall Street. I want the best possible deal for my clients. If Oracle prices support too expensively, I advise my clients to look at options.

Nothing you personally did wrong, and not a reflection on how hard you work.

[why u want to know]

John Wookey has been the driving force so far, atleast a s a developer , he is someone we relate to, I wonder how can u rijig thigs like this in the middle of the game, and trust me, this fusion thing is way too complicated then what these guys tell u .

[Jake]

I've thought about this for a few days, and I'd like to point out that under the Apps Unlimited umbrella, there have been at least 4 brand new, full version releases over the past 12 months: EBS R12, Enterprise 9, Siebel 8 and JDE World A9.1.

You would correctly point out that development on these product lines was already in progress before the acquisitions began. However, it would not have been a surprise to see these product lines put immediately into maintenance only mode in favor of Fusion as the division's focus.

Instead, John made it a priority to support the investment already made by our acquired customers by continuing those lines and allowing easier upgrade to Fusion, when/if the customer desires.

SAP's BBD follows essentially the same model, i.e. concurrent development of different, potentially overlapping, product lines. And before you say that BBD targets different customers, keep in mind 1) SAP has several lines that target small/medium customers and 2) Oracle's application portfolio runs the gamut from small to enormous when you account for all our acquired product lines. Overlap is inevitable.

Your pal, Jake

[anonymous]

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/071016/1535559.html?.v=1

there you go - you can now say "You heard it here first" a'la Fox News

[Floyd]

Nice perspective and kudos on the accurate prediction...even though I'm also very sorry to see Wookey go.

[Dennis Moore]

Vinnie --

Very nice analysis and reporting.

One minor issue: Ed Abbo was heading the legacy apps under Wookey prior to the change and after the change as well (but I think reporting to Chuck Rozwat, from what I hear). Ed is not really a support guy, but has been a development guy at Siebel and post-acquisition (see http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pressroom/html/eabbo.html for his bio).

Keep up the great stuff (and check out my blog at http://dbmoore.blogspot.com/ )!

-- Dennis Moore, OQO

[David Scott Lewis (Zytech Solar, a Going Green 100 Winner)]

It's "Kurian," NOT "Kurien."

Anyway, I was on his team about a gazillion years ago. He's one of the brightest people I have EVER met -- and this includes the likes of Richard Feynman during my ancient undergrad days, Bill Gates (when I worked at Microsoft), and Larry and Sergey when I interviewed for the number three slot (at that time) at Google, back when they were on University Avenue.

Thomas is truly brilliant. He needs to work on his press/analyst skills; he still comes across as a bit too defensive/know-it-all type (even though he might very well know-it-all, it's not a good attitude when dealing with know-it-all analysts; Larry uses his sense of humor when dealing with analysts, which is a much better approach).

We had a lot in common (schooling, even attending the same church, Menlo Park Presbyterian Church), but never really personally clicked. We're on somewhat opposite political spectrums; he's pretty far to the Left (by my standards), I'm a "true" conservative (but not a war-mongering neocon). But it was probably more of an issue that I couldn't care less about the Oracle Applications Server (which he was running) after three survivors (including yours truly) of an Oracle Applications SWAT Team got transferred to his group. There were also comp issue problems: Going from Ray Lane and George Roberts to a group fundamentally under Chuck puts a lot less cash in your pocket, especially when we didn't get any stock options. Frankly, going from SCM and CRM to an app server group was worse than tooth extraction without Novocaine. Too geeky, too boring, no fun at all. True, Oracle Apps (as in Building 6OP) never worked, but that was the challenge in selling them!!

Thomas will do a great job for Oracle in any expanded role they give him. Send him to some public speaking classes, let him lighten up a bit when dealing with analysts. But as far as making key strategic AND tactical decisions, he might be the smartest executive at Oracle. Too bad he falls for Left-wing idealist gibberish politically; maybe he can learn a thing or two from Vinod Khosla -- my kind of Republican.

David Scott Lewis, SVP,
Startech Global Corporation, the Outsourcing Hub for Tsinghua University (China's MIT & Hu Jintao's alma mater) &
Zytech Solar Corporation, a Going Green 100 Winner

Green tech meets Tsinghua. You read between the lines ...

[vinnie mirchandani]

David, number 3 at Google...man us ex-analysts are not as smart as we look -)